With Johan Kobborg not only on the fateful La Sylphide: “If I could, I would dance Madge every day!”

Johan Kobborg. Photo: Morgan Norman.

Author Zuzana Rafajová

You are in the middle of staging your La Sylphide for the Czech National Ballet. You made this ballet for the Royal Ballet, then you staged it at the Bolshoi, just before Prague you were working on it in Sarasota. How do you find the Czech National Ballet dancers so far?
Each company is different and has its own „style“. I was thinking just this morning that dancers here in Prague have this physical awareness. They are used to be challenged by different styles and ways of movement, they have strong physicality, which is great.
But my main focus now is to find the same level of awareness in not so physical way. In La Sylphide we have many mime scenes and I need the dancers to be as aware of themselves doing them, as they are in extreme physical movements. They need to see, hear, feel, react to each other…

Mime scenes are one of the crucial parts of romantic repertoire. You are a Royal Danish Ballet School graduate, were mime classes part of your education?
Yes, at least back in my days, we had mime classes. Which certainly helps, but then the work continues. I don’t differentiate between dancing a solo variation and doing a mime scene. It’s all part of your role, part of your thinking, moving, interacting. It is all in the details and right timing.
And that’s what La Sylphide has taught me. It was one of the first major ballets I did as a soloist, it was the one I got promoted to principal of Danish Royal Ballet. I have danced this ballet so many times and I am still fascinated by it. There is so much depth in the story, in the characters, in their relationships. It has so much to offer to you as an artist. There is no „right“or „wrong“ interpretation, you can change each night, the possibilities are endless. That’s another of my goals here. To make this ballet work for each cast, to help them find their own way, their own voice in the story. As they say – if two are doing the same, it is not, nor it should be the same.

And on top of that, there is the Danish ballet technique, that is quite different. What would you say are the specifics of this technique? What dancers not used to it usually find the most challenging?
It is hard to pinpoint one thing, but I think Bournonville’s port de bras and use of upper body are rather unique these days. Bournonville’s dancers use their upper body in much more minimalistic way. Nowadays we are used to sell everything we are doing on stage, it should be huge, it should leave the audience in awe, it should show how many difficult things we are able to do and how good we are. In Bournonville, we are doing difficult steps as well, but we are not announcing them beforehand. In Bournonville you dance all the time, no five seconds breaks as in Petipa (or maybe I should say what we think is Petipa), which from stamina point of view is rather demanding.  
But what I feel is most unique in Bournonville style is the way how well was his style preserve in Denmark with minimal changes compare to other places. When I watch clips of Russian dancers from the beginning of the 20th century, or bits from Alexei Ratmansky ballet, I go – well, this is Bournonville! Which tells me, that back in the day this was the dominant style of ballet dancing.

It most likely was. Especially if we are talking about male dancing in Petipa ballets. It was Christian Johansson, Bournonville’s pupil, who were the most important figure for male dance in St Petersburg when Petipa made his ballets… And then Enricco Cecchetti, who choreographed many male variations in said ballets (for himself and then others).
That’s another thing with Bournonville. He created his ballets for himself. He was a great dancer, which is most probably why we see quite a lot male dancing in his ballets, they are not only focused on the ballerina. Even though once Bournonville retire from stage, he started to cut some bits and pieces from his choreographies. I’m not sure if it was because the dancers taking over his roles felt like they couldn’t do it, or if he considered them not to be up to par, but the truth is even in La Sylphide some music was cut out.

But you are bringing it back in this production, am I right?
It is quite the story! It was sometime in the late 1980’s a piano reduction of the 1836 Bournonville 1st production was found. And in it were some scenes we did not have in what we then considered „the Bounrnonville“ La Sylphide in Denmark. When I was asked to do my La Sylphide in 2005 for The Royal Ballet I discovered there is this piano reduction, and because I read Bournonville’s libretto and found scenes in it that I did not recognise, I decided to use at least some of the forgotten music and try to recreate these scenes with the help of Bournonville’s handwritten notes regarding mainly the acting and mime that he made into the piano reduction. We only had to make new orchestration of these parts.
Then fast forward to 2022 when I was asked to stage La Sylphide in Sarasota and here in Prague. I am contacted by Lars Payne, musician and librarian, who told me, the original 1836 Herman Severin Loevenskiold full score was found in an archive somewhere in Sweden. So, this is the second time this music in this orchestration is being heard since mid-19^th century… Which is amazing!

It certainly is! What else is going to be different in your production from what we considered is „the standard Bournonville“? And how much Bournonville’s La Sylphide changed over the years? In 2008 the Czech National Ballet did La Sylphide staged by Frank Anderssen, so it woud be interesting to compare these two versions…
I was told just recently by somebody in the theatre, that they were told back then, that the production was „98 % Bournonville“. And I was like, what are you talking about?! One of the most famous parts of this ballet is the divertissement at the beginning of act II. And that’s not Bournonville’s choreography at all! There used to be a pas de deux for James and Sylph with different music in Act 2 instead of the divertissement we now consider traditional. The male solos in Act 1 are not by Bournonvilles hand. On the other hand, you can find a 1902 film recording of Sylph’s solo from act I and looking at it, it is choreographically pretty much the same these days. But still, you have to take all these claims of „original“ with a pinch of salt. The main thing though is that it lives today.

And apart from La Sylphide, is there any other Bournonville’s ballet you would love to see performed more often?
Napoli is an amazing ballet! But the whole of act II is not original. However, acts I and III are absolute masterpieces.

You did your version of La Sylphide, then you made Giselle with Ethan Stiefel, then Don Quixote. What makes you interested in these stories?
I love classical ballet and I feel there is lack of new classical productions of traditional ballet repertoire. It seems to me theatres and directors rather invest into new contemporary dance production, than a classical one. And with ballets like La Bayadere, Le Corsaire or Nutcracker, that are now considered problematic, and maybe rightfully so, they go the easier way and cancel them altogether, rather than investing in them and finding new ways of telling the story and change the elements that are outdated. And it breaks my heart. I am also afraid that once you start with pointing out the problematic bits and cancelling the ballets because of them, there is no coming back.
People are saying – classical ballet is not relevant, what made sense hundred years ago might not make sense today… But I believe there is a way to stay true to classical ballets, their essence, and the style, but make it work for people of today. And it is our responsibility to not only keep the ballets alive but make them exciting for new audiences. Classical ballet is not inherently old fashioned. You just need to make a good production.

I believe people are still interested in the classical story ballets, they still want to see the huge, so-called traditional productions as well as the contemporary art.
Because many of these ballets offers you a fantasy, an escape from your day-to-day life. And sometimes you just need this kind of relief. At the same time, you can very well identify yourself with the characters of classical ballet stories, with their situation, their struggles… I mean, the Sylph can be seen as this fairy-tale creature with wings, or she may be a metaphor for something completely different. Freedom, escape, questions whether I should take a risk and leave or stay in my secure life. That’s why La Sylphide as a story is still relevant. We understand the essence. It’s timeless.

And all the new contemporary versions of these stories show they still have something to offer. That there is still something exciting about them. Because if not, there won’t be Giselle by Mats Ek or Akram Khan, Matthew Bourne’s Swan Lake, and others…
Yes. And we need these new perspectives and new points of view! But I just think we need the classical versions as well.

One of your latest works was your version of Romeo and Juliet, premiered in Verona and then staged in London. But if I am not mistaken, you were supposed to do your first production even before in Russia?
This goes back to 2013 or 2014. I was hired to do full length Romeo and Juliet for ballet in Novosibirsk. I went there, rehearse for two or three weeks and then I had to go back to Romania, where I just became an artistic director of the ballet company. And in the meantime, they changed director in Novosibirsk, he cancelled my production, and I never came back.
Then it was 2019, I was in Atlanta staging La Sylphide and I got a call from Sergei Polunin. He said he has the opportunity to do an event in Arena di Verona and if I would be interested to make something, since he had no programme planned yet. I came up with the idea of Romeo and Juliet, since Sergei never danced Romeo before. At the beginning it was supposed to be just a pas de deux, but then I said, why don’t we do one act version of the whole ballet? We went for it and in just three months completely new production was made and I am still immensely proud of it. And in a way I feel like we went back to the roots of Romeo and Juliet, because the ballet used to be one act!

It did. The world premiere was here in the Czech Republic, then Czechoslovakia, in Brno. But you mentioned the name of Sergei Polunin, one of the most problematic figures not only in the ballet world, especially due to his political views. You worked with him several times, choreographed for him, danced in his shows (even here in Prague few years ago). Do you still see yourself collaborating with him in the future?
I have known Sergei since he was a young boy just starting out at the Royal Ballet. I always liked him; he was humble and strangely rather insecure. We always worked well together in the studio, and I know a side of him that I always felt deserved more than one chance when things somewhat derailed. We don’t work together anymore but I will always be proud of the things we did together.   

Do you already have plans for any new productions?
I might be doing two new works next season, but I cannot tell you much more yet. Just that one of them is ballet I wanted to do for such a long time, but never found the courage, never even dared to think about it. And now I am going for it. The story is original, it was simmering in my head for nearly thirty years, so I am very excited to see how it all turns out.

If we go back in time and look at the beginning of your career, it was quite unique. You started rather late.
I was always interested in art. I did some dancing, but mainly tap or jazz. Music was my main passion and I thought I could be a singer. But then when I hit puberty my voice started to change… So, I was thinking what to do and ballet seemed like an artform that would combine most of my interests – music, drama, dance. I went to audition to the Royal Danish ballet school at the age of sixteen. Just to try and see. And then I got accepted. I am glad I started with ballet when I was older, because I believe if it’s your choice, your drive and your passion is completely different. But surely, I was fortunate that I was talented enough. But don’t be mistaken, when I joined the school, I was far from best!

But then you were chosen to dance the male part of the recording of Bournonville ballet class!
But that was three years later, and many things can change in three years. That’s why I mentioned the driveI started much later than everybody else, so I commit to working hard on myself. I didn’t want to fail and let myself and my choice down. Also – I was not supposed to be the one filmed, but the principal dancer of the company got injured and I took his place.

Still, you cannot deny your career then skyrocketed.
Everything has begun at Bournonville festival back in 1992, from that time I got to dance first soloist and principal roles. Got promoted to principal of Royal Danish Ballet…

And then you left for London. Why the sudden change?
I like challenges of big ballets, variations, partnering, lifts, which you don’t really have in Bournonville, and they had all the classics in London. And they also have one more thing we did not in Denmark. Lots of shorter ballerinas I could have dance with.
In 1997 I was guesting in Scottish Ballet, dancing (makes dramatic pause) La Sylphide! I invited Anthony Dowell, then Royal Ballet artistic director to watch the show. He sadly couldn’t come, but he sent Monica Mason, his co-director. I was confident, since La Sylphide was really one of my best, if not the best role, so I believed they would offer me a contract. But they were not interested, which at the time was like a slap to my face. But I decided that I am going to prove them wrong!
Year and a half later, I am in Toronto, guesting with National Ballet of Canada dancing Nutcracker, when I get a fax! It was from an English choreographer Michael Corder and he invited me to London, saying he would create on me, if I would be interested. Of course, I was! The piece was called Masquerade and Anthony Dowell, seeing his mistake (smiles), offered me to stay straight away. And I did and spent fourteen amazing years there from 1999 to 2013 as a principal dancer. And then, obviously, Alina Cojocaru walked through the door and that was it.

But then you and Alina both left the company in 2013 quite abruptly, with just a few weeks’ notice before your last performance. What happened then?
I was in very secure position in London. I was forty, but I was still dancing, even though I was not doing that many shows, but it gave me artistic freedom. I could have stayed with the company for several years longer easily. But Alina wanted to leave, and I didn’t see the point in staying with the company without her, because what we had together on stage was special and I had such a good experience dancing with her I didn’t want to start over with someone else. So we decided to leave and suddenly rumours started that it was me, who wanted to leave and somehow grab Alina with me… And the situation turned quite hostile. Then we did our last show with the company in Japan and the goodbye from the company was in the end sadly rather cold and impersonal.

I still remember your post on social media from that day. It hurt just reading it…
Maybe I shouldn’t have done that, but at the same time, that was how I felt. Leaving something you love and are passionate about always hurts and is always emotional. And I spent fourteen years with the company, so when it seemed like they didn’t even say a proper goodbye I lost it a bit… But that’s life and I have no regrets.

But then again, your farewell performance in London was on your 41st birthday with the audience singing to you Happy birthday at the end. Who can say something like that?!
It was special. The whole performance was. I was coming back on stage after six months, because I dislocated my shoulder. I couldn’t really lift my arm still and it was quite scary, but I did it. I danced Mayerling with all the challenging partnering… That was quite an event!

After your career in London, you became an artistic director of National ballet company in Romania. Where did this opportunity come from?
Well, I was invited to the company to do La Sylphide (laughs)! And then few days before the opening night I was offered the position, which I happily accepted.

And yet again, the end of your days with the company come as a shock in just two years in 2016. What happened there?
It surely was one of the most surreal experiences I have ever had. I was brought to the company to elevate it to European standards, and I was free to choose my repertoire. In just two years the company did pieces by MacMillan, Ashton, Kylián, Ratmansky, Possokhov… The ballet company started to get attention, critics were great, shows were successful, everything looked promising and the energy within the company was great.
And then the general manager was accused of fraud and thrown in jail. (He was proven innocent, but four years later…). Came a new general manager, who for some reason did not really like me, even though we never met in person, he removed my name from the website, saying there is no such position as artistic director of the ballet company. Then more crazy things started to happen, there were demonstrations of the artists, Alina and I were banned from the theatre building, the theatre changed its general manager five times in less than four weeks…  And in a meeting, I had with the last one, I realized I won’t be able to continue working like I was used to. Therefore, I decided to remove myself from the situation completely and resigned, because I wouldn’t be able to work in such an atmosphere full of power struggle and corruption. I am still sad about it, because I loved Bucharest and to this day it may be my favourite place on Earth.

You are working as a freelance choreographer since then, would you ever be interested in become and artistic director again?
Honestly, after the experience I had I would really have to feel it is the right time, right place, and right people. Because I couldn’t go through what I went in Romania twice. As a freelancer I am fortunate enough I am offered opportunities and new challenges staging my works.

Allow me on more personal question that is usually focused on female dancers and women in general, but I think it should be asked just in general. You have family, you raise two little kids. How do you managed with you choreographing in one place, Alina dancing in another…?
We are just trying to figure it out and navigate as we go. With our firstborn it was easier, because when covid hit, we were all at home together. But now with two kids it’s way crazier.
Our home is in London, but neither I nor Alina work there. I left our house at the beginning of February and was back maybe for one or two days since. Alina is mostly in Germany now but guesting in other places. I honestly admire Alina more than ever. I don’t know how she’s doing it, she has not been able to sleep properly for five years, both times she managed to come back to top form quite quickly, she is still dancing, and she just keep adding new layers to her artistry.
 

And very last and very important question. Will you be dancing Madge here on the opening night or was it just a special occasion in the Bolshoi?
(Laughs.) I did not do the opening night at the Bolshoi; it was probably 3rd or 4th night, and I did it just because my interpreter kept nagging me about it. I did a performance with the Royal Ballet, so I have danced Madge twice.
I actually danced James and Madge within the same week at the Royal, and the week prior to that I had been dancing around in pointe shoes as a Sylph in Ratmansky’s Bright Stream with ABT in NY.  I won’t be doing it here; you have many great artists of your own. But if I could, I would do Madge every day!

Johan Kobborg, Danish dancer and choreographer, former principal dancer with the Royal Danish Ballet and The Royal Ballet. During his dancing career, he performed on the world's leading stages (Mariinsky Theatre, Bolshoi Theatre, Teatro alla Scala, National Ballet of Canada, American Ballet Theatre, etc.), portraying the male leads in the ballets Swan Lake, Giselle, Don Quixote, La Sylphide, Sleeping Beauty or The Nutcracker. He has also danced in ballets by such artists as J. Robbins, G. Balanchine, F. Ashton, J. Neumeier, K. MacMillan, F. Flindt, J. Kylián, Ch. Wheeldon and L. Scarlett. During his fourteen seasons at the Royal Ballet, he was one of the leading forces of the dramatic repertoire of K. MacMillan (Manon, Mayerling, Romeo and Juliet) and J. Cranko (Onegin).
From 2013 to 2016 he was artistic director of the National Ballet of Bucharest, Romania.
He won gold medal at the Rudolf Nureyev Competition in 1994 and the Eric Bruhn Competition in Toronto (1993). In 2001, he won the Critics' Circle National Dance Award for Best Male Dancer. His portrayal of the Teacher in Flemming Flindt's ballet The Lesson earned him a nomination for the prestigious Olivier Award, and he was nominated for the 1996 Benois de la Danse for James in La Sylphide. In 2013, he received the Knight Order of Dannebrog from Queen Margrethe II of Denmark.
He is currently a freelance choreographer, having created productions of the ballets La Sylphide (2005), Giselle (2013), Don Quixote (2017), Romeo and Juliet (2019) and Cinderella (2021). In 2018, he collaborated as ballet consultant and principal choreographer on Ralph Fiennes' The White Crow, about the early life of Rudolf Nureyev.
His dance and life partner is prima ballerina Alina Cojocaru, with whom he is raising two children.